Dimebag and Snake Sabo take on Ace Frehley.

Pantera's Dimebag Darrel and Skid Row's Snake Sabo, eyeing each other with great wariness, are ready for the great competition. No, they won't be trying to outshred each other in a sweaty all-night jam. Rather they'll be competing for top honors in an epic struggle: a two man Ace Frehley look alike contest.

         Armed with jars of clown white, Stein's liquid silver and assorted other powder and cream, the duo work like demons to replicate the distinctive kabuki makeup of their favorite guitarist, ex Kiss stalwart Ace Frehley. The stakes are very high, especially since the man who is to judge the results will be none other than their hero, Ace-in the flesh.

Darrel who has the advantage of having painted his face numerous times to resemble Ace in his formative years, mercilessly heckles his opponent, who appears to be having trouble with some runny mascara. Sabo responds by informing the Pantera guitarist where he can stick his red, billy-goat beard.

Soon they are done: both Dimebag and Snake have transformed themselves into eerily perfect copies of Ace, circa Kiss Alive!, 1975." It's a tie," Frehley whispers, a bit stunned.

There is obviously something strange about two successful young musicians participating in such a competition. The truth is, Sabo and Darrel are simply engaging in hero worship rites of the most powerful sort. One of the greatest rock and roll secrets of the last two decades is the prevailing influence of Kiss, and particularly Ace Frehley, on a whole generation of young musicians who grew up in the seventies. In that other wise forgettable decade, Kiss introduced rock and roll to millions of embryonic headbangers who were hypnotized by their cartoon personas, chunky hard sound and outrageous stage shows. Among these were the young Snake and Darrel.

"Kiss was my first rock experience," says Sabo. "They made me want to play guitar. In fact, I used to get into fights with kids at school who thought Ace wasn't as good as Jimmy Page. I'd fight for his honor".

As for Darrel, his obsession with the Kiss guitarist is so extreme that last year he had a huge image of Ace tattooed on his chest. "Man, before the day is through, I'm gonna have Ace sign his name on my chest next to his picture," vows Darrel, before taking on the Snake." And when I fly back to Texas tonight, I'm gonna head straight to the tattoo parlor and have them ink it permanently!

Frehley is some what humbled by Snake and Darrel's hot adulation: "to tell you the truth, I never realized the effect Kiss had until I left the band,: admits Ace. "Ten years later I had kids coming up to me that Alive and Alive2 were their rock and roll bibles------- and that flipped me out. I never thought about that stuff while I was in the band, I was really surprised by it later."

At the end of a lengthy photo session--------during which the three Aces branded Les Pauls equipped with smoke bombs------Snake and Darrel sit down with their hero for a lesson in advanced kisstory. But first Ace must autograph Darrel and Snake's guitars, tennis shoes, posters .....

Dave "The Snake" Sabo: How old were you when you joined kiss?

Ace Frehley: 23

Sabo: How did you hook up with the band?

Frehley: By answering an ad in the [New York] village voice that said, "Band with recording contract looking for a guitarist." The first song they taught me was "Deuce," and I loved it right from the first time they played it for me. When I came back for a second audition, they told me I had the gig. Then I found out there was no recording contract [laughs]           

Dimebag Darrel: How did you react to the idea of wearing makeup?

Frehley: Every body in the band wanted to do a theatrical show and, obviously makeup was included in that. At the time, Alice Cooper was really big and New York dolls were doing well, and both of them used makeup. So when they first asked me about wearing makeup, I thought it was a cool idea.

Darrel: Did you all design your own masks?

Frehley: Yeah. We developed the make up in a club in Long Island called The Daisy. The first night we played with makeup, Paul's face was all red and mine was silver. I think Gene was the first to put makeup around his eyes and wear black lipstick. Then we all decided that we should wear white faces with designs around the eyes. I was always into science fiction and astronomy, so that's how my image evolved.

Guitar World: Did the fact that the public had no idea what you looked like with out makeup ever frustrate you?

Frehley: No, I thought it was great. If every on knew what I looked like back in 1978, I wouldn't have been able to go any where. It's funny----I get recognized a lot today then I did when Kiss was at the peak of its popularity. To tell you the truth, the makeup let me live my life out side of the band much more easily. I had my anonymity back then, and today I don't.

Darrel: I used to take the Double Platinum album and trace the embossed pictures inside to see what you guys might look like with out makeup. [laughs] What's the closest you came to getting photographed with out makeup?

Frehley: We were photographed a lot, but we always had bodyguards with us who would take the cameras and rip out the film.

Darrel: How did the band keep such a tight control over the photos for 10 years?

Frehley: To tell you the truth, most magazines didn't want to print pictures of us without makeup. I can remember a couple of times where the magazines did get photos of us unmasked, but didn't print them-----they wanted to work with us. They knew that the bands mystique was selling a lot of magazines for them, and they didn't want to ruin that.

Sabo: To me, the band's image and makeup was always secondary to the music, but I think a lot of people only saw Kiss fir their theatrics. Was that ever a problem for you?

Frehley: There definitely were the time when I felt that the theatrics almost overshadowed the music. I never wanted music to become secondary to the show. I can remember nights when I didn't play really well, but I was very animated on stage ------  and people would tell me it was the best they had heard me play in a long time. Then there were night when I concentrated more on my playing and backed off on the choreography, and people told me I had an off night. It was then I realized that music was not the most important thing about Kiss. It was another contributing factor to my eventually leaving the group.

Sabo: When you were young did you always see yourself becoming a musician, or did you have other aspirations?

Frehley: I came to a crossroad in my life when I was sixteen. All my guidance counselors were telling me that I should go to art school and become a graphic artist. But I thought I knew I had the ability to do that, my heart was into playing rock and roll. Then I cut school one day and saw The Who opening up for Mitch Ryder in Detroit, and I knew for sure what I wanted to do.

GW: But lately you've rekindled your interest in being an artist and started working with computer graphics. Tell us about that?

Frehley: I just had my first exhibition in a real art gallery in New Jersey, and I had 14 pieces of art work on display and for sale. I do them all on a computer Mackintosh program called Infini/D. And I am starting to get into animation too.

GW: What kind of art background do you have?

Frehley: I used to draw all the tattoos on everybody's arms in ink, and in high school I designed the year book and was always on the art staff. I can oil paint, water color----- all that stuff. But what attracts me to computer graphics is that there are no limitations ---- except your imagination.

Darrel: Do you admire any newer rock bands?

Frehley: You guys aren't bad. [laughs] But I do like some of the newer bands out there like Extreme, Guns N' Roses and Pearl Jam, who are my daughter's favorite group she plays their album [Ten] constantly, and it really grew on me.

Sabo: How long have you been playing guitar?

Frehley: Well, I just turned 42 and I started playing when I was 12 ----- so almost 30 years

Darrel: How many guitars do you own?

Frehley: Only about 25. I used to have 150, but I dumped then when the vintage market boomed out. If you remember when Eddie Van Halen became popular every one started playing Kramers and Jacksons and the vintage guitar market really dropped. And I didn't want to get stuck with all these guitars, so I sold them. Man, I had mint vintage goldtops from the early fifties with the tags still on them. I'm kind of sorry I did that because today they'd be worth about a million dollars.

Darrel: Do you have a favorite guitar?

Frehley: Yeah, my 3-pickup cherry Custom.

Darrel: Do you use all three pickups?

Frehley: No, just the treble. The other two aren't even wired [laughs]

Darrel: Are your solos spontaneous or do you work them out before you get into the studio?

Frehley: I usually don't figure them out before hand ----- I just push the button and go.

GW: What about the smoking guitar solo at the end of "Shock me" on Alive2? Was that rehearsed or spontaneous?

Frehley: That one was kind of planned out. I basically did the same solo every night, with minor alterations. You know I can remember going to shows as a little kid and watching guitar players who played their solos exactly the way they did on the album, and that always impressed me. I don't like guitar players who try to be cool and play something completely different from what's on the album, and I don't think the fans want that. To me when you change a solo, its almost like changing the lyrics of a song, and I think it disappoints the fans.

GW: Do you know a lot of theory?

Frehley: I don't know shit from shineola [laughs] I think that's one of the reasons that I am original ----- I never took lessons or had any formal training.

GW: Do you think you are more respected as a guitarist today then when you were in Kiss?

Frehley: I'm probably a more legitimate guitar player today than I was during the seventies. I think because I'm a survivor who is still playing after all this time, and people respect that. But I think there was a time when it was almost uncool for serious musicians to like Kiss. We were considered more of a teeny-bop group because we were on the cover of 16 magazine all the time.

Sabo: When I'm on stage, certain things tell me whether I'm having a good night. What do you feel when you know you're playing well?

Frehley: Sometimes when I'm playing lead, I get a jolt of electricity that runs through my arms down to my arms that tells me I'm really smokin'. The strings become butter and the guitar almost plays itself. It's a feeling I can't explain, and its only happened about a dozen time in my whole life. I wish it would happen more often.

Darrel: Speaking of getting "jolted" what happened that time when you got electrocuted on stage?

Frehley: Man, that was flipped out. It happened in Lakeland, Florida. We were touring with the big set, the one with the two staircases that's pictured inside Alive 2. Gene ran down the stairs on the first song and I walked down nice and slow ----- my balance wasn't so good. The power on the building was weird that night and when I came down, I just grounded out as soon as I touched the metal railing with my hand. I couldn't let go. Once I got loose I just fell back---- I was out. I had burns all over my fingers. Paul realized what had happened, he told the audience that I was having a problem. They all started chanting my name and that kind of got me going again. It took at least 10 minutes for me to get back to feeling somewhat normal again.

Darrel: What gauge picks and and strings do you use?

Frehley: Medium picks and Gibson .009  to .046 strings.

Darrel: What about amps?

Frehley: I've been using Laney amps lately.

Darrel: Where did you get the idea for the smoking guitar?

Frehley: We got some smoke bombs when I was on the road with Kiss in the early days, and it occurred to me that if I put a bomb inside the casing of the Les Paul, drill a hole in it and let the fuse stick out so I can light it with a cigarette lighter, the smoke would have to go through the wire channel and come out. And I did that for three or four shows until I realized I screwed up all the volume controls [laughs] That led to me hooking up with an engineer and designing the one that I use now.

Darrel:  Does it have a time limit or will it smoke for as long as you want?

Frehley: I use different size smoke bombs for different venues. I make the bombs myself, and how big I'll make the bomb depends on the size of the room. I can tell how long its gonna burn just by looking at it.

Sabo: After we toured with Pantera, Darrel and I got to be good friends, and now we're like brothers. What kind of relationship Kiss had with the bands you toured with?

Frehley: We always became friendly with the other bands. We had a real good relationship with Cheap Trick and Rush---- we used to party with those guys all the time. Alex [Lifeson, Rush guitarist] used to wear a paper bag over his head with a painted face over it and smoke a cigarette through the bag. [laughs]

Darrel: I was listening to Alive2 the other day and your voice was definitely weaker in those days than it is today. Have you been working on it?

Frehley: Well, I don't practice and I don't warm up before a show, but it helps that I've been singing a lot in the past six months or so. Your voice is like a muscle---- when you sing a lot, it gets stronger. Three or four years age I wouldn't have been able to sing "Detroit Rock City" for an encore----- my voice just wasn't strong enough. But now I'm having more fun on stage because I can belt it out a little more.

Darrel: I've heard rumors that you used to lie on your back in the studio to hit the high notes. Do you still have to do that?

Frehley: I didn't lie on my back to hit high notes ----- I did it because I was nervous and I didn't want any body to see me sing. [laughs] I made Eddie Kramer lower the I laid down so that he could see me through the glass. And that's how I sang my first lead vocal which was "Shock me".

Darrel: Using one word for each of you, describe yourself, Gene Simmons, Peter Criss and Paul Stanley?

Frehley: I don't know-----Spaceman, Monster, Catman and Poseur [laughs]

Sabo: Is it true that the reason you, Gene, Peter and Paul did your solo albums in 1978 was to keep the band together?

Frehley: Well, we did need a break from each other. But if I hadn't done the solo album, I probably would have stayed in the band. When I got away form the rest of the band and did my solo album, I finally realized what I could do on my own. I found out I was much more creative.

Darrel: What exactly were you doing when you crashed your DeLorean in 1983?

Frehley: I was going 100 miles and hour against the traffic on the Bronx river parkway in New York.

Darrel: Were you loaded?

Frehley: I was beyond loaded [laughs]

Darrel: How hard were you hitting the booze back then?

Frehley: Pretty hard, but today I don't need it------its fucking great being sober.

Darrel: Snake and I both like to drink. Now that you've lived through having an alcohol problem, what advice can you give us?

Frehley: Its really a personal decision. Some people can handle it, some people only drink on weekends. But when I was drinking I wanted to drink every day. But I know that I can't do that any more. Basically I couldn't handle the hangovers any more, and I knew I'd end up killing my self. Plus my daughter becomes a teenager this year and how can I tell her not to drink or do drugs if I am high all the time? You know she was listening to my solo album the first time the other day, and she keeps playing "Ozone" over and over again. [laughs] I feel a little weird in that song because I talk about getting high in that song. But I'm happy that she's finally discovering what her dad and where he's been.

GW: What about Paul and Gene? Is that true that they have never tried alcohol or drugs?

Frehley: Paul used to drink wine occasionally, but not in excess. But to my knowledge Gene never drank or smoked pot. I don't trust who've never had a drink [laughs]

Sabo: What was it like making the movie Kiss meets the phantom of the park?

Frehley: Actually, I didn't really enjoy it that much. A lot of that had to do with the shooting schedule. I was a night guy-----I liked to hang out and go to clubs around L.A at night----and we've had something like an 8 am makeup call. And since my hotel was about an hour from the set I had to get up seven o' clock in the morning with a fucking hangover, go to the set and start putting up make up at eight. By nine I'd walk on the set and the director would go, " I think we're going to do close-ups of Gene today. We don't need you until after lunch Ace." He did that to me a couple of times and one day I just snapped and took of in a rented Mercedes.

Darrel: Do you see a kiss reunion in the future?

Frehley: That's really in the hands of Paul and Gene. They own the name and they'd have to propose it to me in the right way. And would I consider it? Yes. It could be a great thing.