Phil Anselmo's interview to Metal Hammer (Aug '97)

We are the Kings of this damn genre!

"They don't fucking know me at all!  A racist? A white person who hates black people? My favorite  sport is boxing, every hero of mine is black. I can't name one white man  I am proud of! And if you really want  to get down to brass tacks, I am   French and Italian, so if that's Aryan, you can kiss my fucking balls!"   

    exclaims Pantera frontman Phil Anselmo. After nearly two years of touring the USA, a top slot on the Ozzfest and a live album due for release at the end of July, Robyn Doreian thinks he has every right to say so. It's been over a year since Pantera released 'The Great Southern Trendkill', the darkest and most introspective album  the band have ever written. The lyrics penned by vocalist Phil Anselmo tell life in a hauntingly negative place - that place being inside his head at the time. Songs about suicide, disillusionment, depression and pain reflected the inner turmoil he was suffering, caused by drug abuse. A man of huge physical and mental strength, he was one of the last people that you'd expected to get out of it on painkillers and dabble in heroin, but Phil chose to take that road to see where it would take him. As all Pantera fans know, it lead to an almost lethal injection of heroin which had him pronounced dead for four minutes in July '96. However, Phil survived and continued to tour with fellow bandmates guitarist Dimebag Darrel, drummer Vinnie Paul and bass player Rex across the USA. During that entire time, he never missed a show - a testimony to his commitment to Pantera and to his own tenacity for life. The frontman realized that taking dope was ruining his life and made the decision to get straight. When METAL HAMMER spoke to him a year ago, he was incredibly honest about his drug phase and the reasons why he got hooked on painkillers, and invigorated by his newly found strength. In this exclusive interview, Robyn Doreian hooks up with Phil at the Boston date of Ozzfest tour. He is in good spirits and enjoying some of the best shows Pantera have experienced in their entire career. When it comes to brutality, it's hard to find a band that can match them in the intensity stakes, but if anything, PanterA have become even more ferocious live. Phil is in Pantera's dressing room 90 minutes before they hit the stage. He lifts weights whilst talking, but as always, speaks with incredible honesty and never dodges even the most difficult of questions. We resume the conversation where we left six months ago...

RD: When I spoke to you last, you seemed very fragile as you had just emerged from an extremely bad time. How did you get through it?    

Phil: "Just put my head to the grindstone, realizing that no one could do a fucking thing for me in this world and that I had to do it for myself. You can have all the support of friends and family, but you are the one who has to get through it."     "There are other friends of mine who have not strayed from the drug path and are still going down it. You gotta do what you've got to do for yourself at that time, and PanterA and my job, my career, is top priority. I've done my bout with dope and shit, and that is history, I don't need it."

RD: Did you find support from people you didn't expect?    

Phil: "Sure, sure. Many people, there are too many to single out anyone in particular, as it would be unfair, but I'll say the first people who popped into my mind is all the Biohazard guys, old and new, Bobby and everyone, they called me right of the bat, Billy Milano, a lot of the New York scene people, they were all really there for me, and that's not to exclude the other people who gave me support, there were many, many. Like you said, it was unexpected. I didn't really expect anybody to say anything, but everybody to fucking Rick Neilson from Cheap Trick."

RD: What did he say to you?    

Phil: "He said, 'Stick around, motherfucker, I'm going to kick your ass.' The best was from Billy Milano; he goes, 'Phil, you ever overdose like that again and die, I'm gonna kill myself and come to hell and kick your ass!" (laughs)

RD: What about the fans?

Phil: "The fans have been nothing but great. I have had some hate mail, because some people just don't understand, but I'm used to hate mail or whatever... I would say that the majority have been nothing but fucking positive and very supportive. I have letters saying, 'Thank God you are still here, thank God Pantera are doing what they are doing, thank God you didn't try to sell out and make the quick buck.' It's all clear to me now, what the general consensus of what the people want PanterA to do, and that is what we are doing. As far as support from the people, it's flourished like hepatitis it's been wonderful!"

RD: Did you have anyone watching you in case you slipped up?    

Phil: "No, I'm watching me. There is no way I could slip up in front of these eyes. I have to look at myself in the mirror every day."

RD: Did you go to Narcotics Anonymous?    

Phil: "No way, fuck no! I quit and went through cold turkey and fucking withdrawals. You remain severely depressed for months and finally, that lifts, but all it was was just the complications of little problems." You take little problems, but when your self esteem is very low, they escalate into the biggest problems of all. They are really not that bad, so chill the fuck out, what is the worst that can happen? What is the worst? You have already died, and that wasn't too bad, so all you can do is have some guts and try to live again. It takes more guts to stick it out than to fade away.     "There's moods you go through and fuck it, you can't take it any more and goddamn this time I am just going to fadeaway with sleep, real honest to God sleep."

RD: Why did you have such a low self esteem?    

Phil: "It was the dope, man. Once you get hooked into that... They are not called downers for nothing. It happens over a period of time. The first couple of times you might do something, you might have a good time on it, acid, anything like that. I'm not saying acid is a depressant, but it can be."

RD: In the letter that you issued to the press following your overdose, you said that you had recovered. Was it that easy?    

Phil: "I didn't say that I had totally recovered, I said that I was up and didn't miss a fucking show. I'll say that. I needed those shows at that time. If I had to sit in my fucking house and shit like that after an overdose, I would have been gone, I really would have. I was really glad I had those shows. The next day was a day off, the next day we played somewhere in Texas, and we did fine."

RD: Do you believe that once a person is an addict, they will always be an addict?

Phil: "Sure. Yes, I do, because it is a constant tug, it's always a pull, because you have already been there once you can go back. It's like an old girlfriend or something, always there if it is available, just like the girl may be. It is always going to be there. People always have it. "I'm not just talking about heroin, I'm talking about pills and shit like that. I can't take them, I cannot take them any more. Can't do it, it just fucks my head up too bad. I'll maybe take some aspirin sometime if I have a headache, or a muscle relaxant if I have a spasm in my back, but nothing that fucks with my head - valium, any of that shit. Just can't take them."

RD: Are you scared of might relapse?  

Phil: "I'm not afraid of anything right now. I've stepped off the mountain to the sky and now I know totally where I'm at."

RD: When you look back at yourself as you were then, do you recognize that person?    

Phil: "That's a tough one, you know. I never wanted to be  that pasty fucking, limp fucking - I was just limp, it felt like, nothing, just nothing there, and I hate that feeling, man, I like to be able to talk to people. I am a good person, I have a lot to offer."

RD: What kind of perspective did 'dying' give to you on your life?    

Phil: "That nothing is forever, that we are all going to croak, so you might as well do it now, as the old saying goes. Death hits you about as gradually as a fucking mosquito hits a windshield. Have a fucking good time, for God's sake."

RD: With everything that's happened to you, did it affect your ability to write songs?

Phil: "Um, I'll say that the stuff off 'The Great Southern Trendkill' is coming from a very negative viewpoint, very negative, real hateful, real spiteful, not necessarily where I want to be, and not necessarily the message PanterA would want to convey. Looking at old pictures, old lyrics and reading shit we had done in the past was always such a uplifting thing in a way. It might have been pissed off, but it was always put in the right context. "Put that type of anger and mix it with the negativity, and I guess your fans are a little confused. They are like: 'Wow, where is this dude coming from? He was just as powerful before, but he is full of hate.' I don't really have hate in me, but at the time, it was so clouded and strange and shit - but I am looking forward to the better things."

RD: You've said that honest songwriting is stories about life. Is that true of the two new ones on 'PanterA Official'? What are they about?

Phil: "I am summing up all this shit, all that I have been through, in these two songs on this live album, so I don't have to keep writing about it over and over on the next record. Like I said, we are all ready to go forward. So what we've done with these new songs is taken our southern roots and maybe... I don't want to say we've gone back to 'Cowboys From Hell', because I don't think we've gone back or even consciously done that, but one of the songs reminds me of 'Cowboys From Hell' type of fucking thing, the next one is more of an uptempo, short, sweet type of song. We wrote those songs in two days."

RD: What kind of lyrics are they?     

Phil: "(laughs) First one's called 'Where You Come From', and it's like where you come from, what elements you take from where you're from and make them work for you, or the other way around. It's me admitting to being human, being wrong in a lot of ways, but still with attitude. I've got a little dirt on me, but no problem. You can't keep me down forever, or even for five minutes.     "'I Can't Hide' is the same basic shit. That song is about realizing that I can't hide from that shit I have done in the last couple of years, but I ain't hiding from it. I am facing it, I can talk about it, it ain't no big deal. Hopefully, it can rub off on you."

RD: Where did you record all the live stuff?    

Phil: "Many places. It is from the last two or three years, we've been recording live all that time. There is also going to be a home video released in the States, but I am not sure when you will get it over there. (Europe)"

RD: Why didn't you do a whole new record rather than a live one?    

Phil: "It was just time to do a live thing, we had all this shit, and I think we finally wanted a little bit of time to write an album. We were so jammed in between tours, because we tour so much that we finally get a month off and all of a sudden, it is time to start writing and then there's this deadline.     "We haven't even had a chance to analyze anything, you write and put it out, and there's another album. Then you get, 'PanterA could have done this, and that' - snake choke your fucking petty album, you write your own damn album, we are doing it on our schedule, and we'll still kick arse every damn day of a week!"

RD: Why the hell haven't you played the United Kingdom for four years? what is that all about?    

Phil: "I think somewhere down the line there has been a misunderstanding."

RD: Who is this misunderstanding with?

Phil: "The people who are suffering are the fans... "Our paths will cross again. I really don't have a legitimate thing to say. I ain't afraid of no press."

RD: Is it all the shit that was written by certain UK publications (allegations that Phil is a racist, homophobe, etc) that have put you off coming here again?    

Phil: "Yes, I think it's put everyone off quite a bit. We felt severely stabbed in the back, considering that we felt like we had a relationship with all these magazines that just loved us. We were adored by these motherfuckers and then racist comments from someone (who will remain nameless) who is so politically correct that if his wife said 'pussy' in bed, he'd probably be offended, and it got escalated into an incredible bunch of bullshit. "Nobody likes to wear a tag that fucking somebody else pins on you - 'that is how you are, and that is how we are going to look at you now.'  "It's a waste of energy as far as we are concerned, we don't even talk about it any more. Nobody fucks with us any more about that shit, shit is the way it is. "Pantera is not this big, mysterious fucking thing, we are pretty much face value. We're not going to dick you around, we are pretty straightforward."

RD: Did all that stuff hurt you when you read it?    

Phil: "Yes, yes it did. They don't fucking know me at all! A racist? A white person who hates black people? My favorite sport is boxing, every hero of mine is black. I can't name one white man I am proud of! And if you really want to get down to brass tacks, I am French and Italian, so if that's Aryan, you can kiss my fucking balls! I am tired of this shit, man."

RD: Do you feel like an easy target?    

Phil: "Just look at me!"

RD: Are you going to sort this shit out, and come back and play for the fans?    

Phil: "I want to. That's what's important, the fans, and we all know that. We are just looking for the right opportunity. Personally, I would like to do some small places. I don't want this to be a gala event, I want to get down to fucking roots, the hardest shit, straightforward, because we aren't worried about the damn light show. I am ready for sweat and beer - I do still drink beer, by the way! (laughs) , "I've never had a problem with anyone and we've always had a great time in the UK, always, and we do want to come back. I don't want to go back to some place bitter where I have had a good time before with love in my heart and focus in my eyes. I'm with the fans if they are with me."

RD: You guys seem to keep pretty much to yourselves. Have you already been through all the rowdiness, groupies, etc?    

Phil: "I've been through it and I'm tired of it. You know, I have met some really nice girls at our shows who like the band, but most girls at the rock shows want to know what it feels like to be part of what we do. "I went through my years of just laying pipe and shit, it's boring. I just see two girls now, but that shit ain't worth it. It's not appealing to me - wow, I got laid! Shit, I couldn't care less... Everybody has been laid. Kinda trendy, huh? Fucking go against the grain..."

RD: Vinnie, Dimebag, and Rex own the strip club in Dallas. Why aren't you involved in that?    

Phil: "Because I want to live in Texas. If I was involved, it would be just for the money aspect anyway. I am completely uncomfortable in those places. It's cheesy and it's fake. I do the House Of Shock in New Orleans, that is my thing."

RD: So is the House Of Shock on again this year?    

Phil: "Oh, yeah."

RD: Tell us about the House Of Shock.    

Phil: "It's hilarious... Well, when kids leave home in America, family orientated holidays like Christmas and Easter that your parents used to put you through as a kid lose flavor once you are out of the house. If you have a love of horror movies and things of that nature, Halloween is always going to be your favorite time, and me and my friends just got sick of going to the same Halloween party, or going to see the same fucking bands, going home bombed out, and we're like,'Wow - there goes Halloween! Great, it sucks.'     "So we decided that what you do on Halloween is, you fucking dress up like the horrifying monster you already are and scare children to a ridiculous extent. It's blast, man!     "It's built up from like a backyard thing to a small warehouse to the massive warehouse that we have now. It's so big, it takes about 15 minutes to walk across it. We have a church, a swamp, we got all the basics, two chainsaws, but ours is like out and out satanic, just to piss everyone off, and it's fucking awesome. I have no religious beliefs, so it's nothing to me, it's just shtick. "I am the graveyard. Try dressing up in a monster outfit and scaring people for three or four hours straight with no break - it's pain in the arse. It's hardcore, you lose your voice, you lose your mind! "We've got the biggest haunted house in the city. A lot of the local musicians work in there too, all the EyeHateGod boys, Crowbar, Silent Green. It goes on for the whole month of October."

RD: What is happening with Down?    

Phil: "I wish I could tell you something specific, but there are some works going on with Down which me and Pepper (Keenan) need to talk about. We have a song which is not recorded yet, has no title and is a mellow killer song, and that's that. I guess when I get home, I have to call him. COC have been busy, they have done that awesome Metallica tour and I believe they are going to hit the States to support the record, which is the smart thing to do after a big tour. Crowbar are busy, EyeHateGod have just gotten of the road. "I have about five side projects. There is another band I play in, called Super Joint. I play guitar and sing with Jimmy from EyeHateGod, Kevin from Crowbar on bass and this guy Joe on drums. It is kind of Discharge, kind of like Doom, kind of like late Black Flag, it's its own thing. Old school, though. We aren't trying to incorporate no fucking industrial, funk, hip hop bullshit, etc. We aren't trying to do that. "I have loads of other stuff going on. I can't really talk about it right now, but it will see the light of day."

RD: Do you still feel the same way about Pantera as you did when you first started?

Phil: "That's an interesting question. I have had a very long career, considering every other popular band which has been the young, cool supergroup has gone. Pantera, to me, now has gotten deeper, because of the longevity, because of the ferocious loyalty these fucking fans have for us. "I still don't think anybody else has been as for real for the audience, has hit that core with the audience as us; they see us as people just like them. It's been an obligation to consistently put out albums with attitude and girth, raw if need to be, to maintain that signature sound we have invented. It's a lot more than just this power outlet; it's a whole life. It's something else when you stack it all up, when you go through miles and miles of videotapes and go through all the places everyone has been and see how into it everyone has been. It means a lot. There is no way you could take this shit with a grain of salt, it is allconsuming, a good type of consuming."

RD: Have you always got along? Have you ever really fallen out over anything?

Phil: "Yeah, it was before 'Cowboys...' came out. I was telling them I am not going to wear these black spandex any more, I'm not doing this shit any more. We were doing this shit in bars to make money, and I ain't doing it any more. I don't give a shit if I am dead in the gutter, I ain't doing this shit any more. Let's write some songs with some fucking purpose. "We had already started writing some - 'The Art Of Shredding' for the 'Cowboys...' album. We had just had it, it was a hard thing to get over, working for the clubs instead of having it our way. It was shaky for everybody. We had to put our feet down and say, 'Fuck it!' It took all of us fist fighting and grabbing each other, and screaming and crying, like anything that you can have pride in takes hard work."

RD: Did your relationship change with Dimebag, Vinnie and Rex after you took the overdose?    

Phil: "It brought us closer. When I was on that shit, nobody could talk to me. I was in this little locker room, in this tiny space, and could only see this far, and that ain't me. Once you wake up from all that, it is like,'Wow!' "

RD: So how have things been on the Ozzfest tour?    

Phil: "Since day one, when we showed up for preproduction, we ran into some people we knew, some we didn't knew, and everybody has been totally cool, everybody is as nice as they can be doing the best they can out on stage, and I respect every band here.     "These tours has been awesome for us. We are the kings of this damn genre. We have just proved it this year , proved it all over again. When heavy music was at its goddamn lowest fucking point, especially in the American charts and American radio, MTV, fuck, it was like pronounced dead, and here we are coming into this tour, kicking some serious ass. It's been a blast this year."

RD: Have you met Ozzy?    

Phil: "Sure, he keeps to himself. He's the Oz, he may be that way. He's tired, he's been touring for a long time. The Sabbath set is killer. Mike Bordin is doing both sets and is a very nice guy. We have known Rob Trujillo for years, from when he used to tour with Suicidals. "We were going to come over with Ozzy to do the Ozzfest in Britain, but it didn't happen. It's cool to be around people that like you and respect you, but can also be loose and have a good time."

RD: Finally, is there anything you would like to say to your fans in England?    

Phil: "I love you and I miss you. On behalf of Pantera, we apologize for not getting over there on 'The Great Southern Tour' and I'm sure there are some things to sort out, but when the day comes when we come back, it ain't going to be nothing nice. It's going to be fucking violent, it will be a rush of the senses!"